Comments on: Chicken : Egg :: Church : ? http://raphael.doxos.com/2007/04/16/chicken-egg-church/ Some place between 40 and Death Sat, 22 Nov 2008 13:44:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Huw http://raphael.doxos.com/2007/04/16/chicken-egg-church/#comment-238 Huw Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:18:12 +0000 http://raphael.doxos.com/2007/04/16/chicken-egg-church/#comment-238 I'm not sure how you can read sin's preordination from the "felix culpa". God didn't intend sin, did he? I generally take from it that from our sin (which seems really crappy, huh?) God brought forth his greater Glory in the Redemption of us: nothing is all bad and all things are turned by God to the good of those who love God. I’m not sure how you can read sin’s preordination from the “felix culpa”. God didn’t intend sin, did he? I generally take from it that from our sin (which seems really crappy, huh?) God brought forth his greater Glory in the Redemption of us: nothing is all bad and all things are turned by God to the good of those who love God.

]]> By: Fr. Ernesto http://raphael.doxos.com/2007/04/16/chicken-egg-church/#comment-234 Fr. Ernesto Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:34:46 +0000 http://raphael.doxos.com/2007/04/16/chicken-egg-church/#comment-234 Nice discussion! I am not sure I have an opinion yet. I would have tended to put mission first. However, the point is well made that before all things GOD IS. It is a nice chewy discussion over there. Let me just mention that the Exultet contains the following interesting line: "O happy fault, O necessary sin of Adam, which gained for us so great a Redeemer!" It is the oddest line in the Exultet because it seems to put sin as a foreordained happening, which would make mission also a foreordained event, and thus before ecclessiology. It is also one of the most heavily debated lines, East or West, in that beautiful hymn. And, finally, those who push mission and cultural context very hard are also those who tend to see all ecclessiological forms as evanescent and not part of the esse of the Church. However, there is a caution that the Early Church argued that its main form was handed down from the Apostles and its development had to do with the worship in Heaven. This does not mean unchangeable forms, but it does mean (maybe) unchangeable skeleton. Nice discussion! I am not sure I have an opinion yet. I would have tended to put mission first. However, the point is well made that before all things GOD IS. It is a nice chewy discussion over there.

Let me just mention that the Exultet contains the following interesting line: “O happy fault,
O necessary sin of Adam,
which gained for us so great a Redeemer!”

It is the oddest line in the Exultet because it seems to put sin as a foreordained happening, which would make mission also a foreordained event, and thus before ecclessiology. It is also one of the most heavily debated lines, East or West, in that beautiful hymn.

And, finally, those who push mission and cultural context very hard are also those who tend to see all ecclessiological forms as evanescent and not part of the esse of the Church. However, there is a caution that the Early Church argued that its main form was handed down from the Apostles and its development had to do with the worship in Heaven. This does not mean unchangeable forms, but it does mean (maybe) unchangeable skeleton.

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