Comments on: Creation

By: Huw

Huw — Wed, 06 Jun 2007 23:50:14 +0000

Mmm. Two things:
In other words, when we vote democratically, we essentially make a decision on the rules by which we will live.

I don’t see anything but a constant rejection of this idea by those who most idolise the “Founding Fathers”.

And I didn’t see anything about biological determinism in Joe’s comment: “Morals are rules on how to cooperate and interact with your own species in a society.” It sounds rather like “the social contract is defined as a minimalist set of rules which we all need to abide.” (The “maximum” being the taboo thing I mentioned.)

By: Fr. Ernesto

Fr. Ernesto — Wed, 06 Jun 2007 22:00:19 +0000

Nope, nope that’s not the social contract theory. The social contract theory is literally just that, a decision to live together according to certain rules. In other words, when we vote democratically, we essentially make a decision on the rules by which we will live. Mind you, the actual theory is more complicated, but that gives you an idea. As you can quickly tell, the treatment of minorities can be a problem in this theory, unless the social contract is defined as a minimalist set of rules which we all need to abide.

What Joe is reporting on is a type of biological determinism. That is, essentially all human behavior and emotions can be explained, at base level, as developed survival mechanisms for the species.

By: Huw

Huw — Wed, 06 Jun 2007 21:17:31 +0000

Joe - That would be the social contract theory of which Fr E spoke in his comment?

That makes sense to me. Taboo would, also, be a social contract. Albeit one that, shall we say, has a silent partner.

I use “taboo” because I think that’s why conservatives react so strongly when the contract is changed: we’ve broken a contract with the silent partner and s/he may pull out “the big guns” in support of that contract. In other words, conservative reaction to changes in the social contract are, essentially, fear of “what God might do” if we don’t fix this. We see the same forces play out when natives get spooked by a Zippo in movies from the 1940s.

By: Joe

Joe — Wed, 06 Jun 2007 15:56:11 +0000

Human beings have evolved to be social animals. Morals are rules on how to cooperate and interact with your own species in a society.

Basically we are moral because it was an advantage to the survival of the species for most of us to be moral.

By: Fr. Ernesto

Fr. Ernesto — Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:23:26 +0000

Some of the more Deist founders of our country argued for a social contract theory of morality, etc.

Utilitarians argued for “utility.” That is, all human actions serve or have “utility” in maintaining society or family or whatever. Thus “morality” is judged purely on utilitarian grounds.

Nietsche claimed that there is no reason or morality for action. You simply did what you had the power and were empowered to do. If you had the will to conquer, you could do so.

And so on in various philosophical camps. I do not agree with them, but various non-God arguments have been put forward over the centuries.