Comments on: The Exes http://raphael.doxos.com/2008/02/28/the-exes/ Some place between 40 and Death Fri, 21 Nov 2008 07:14:46 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Huw http://raphael.doxos.com/2008/02/28/the-exes/#comment-2312 Huw Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:36:00 +0000 http://raphael.doxos.com/2008/02/28/the-exes/#comment-2312 I agree, but I also think it's a little deeper: the exgay thing adds a layer that is, really, *in support* of gay rights. Ex-gay doesn't equal "ex-sinner" in this world view: the idea of Ex-gay therapy is that there is something wrong - beyond just the activity. I say this is in support of gay rights because Gay Rights activists do not just believe that "gay" is a "choice" for a specific behaviour. You are right that, by (o)rthodox Christian standards, the idea of "fixing" a sinner is totally off. But there is an implication in the idea of therapy that goes beyond simply fixing the behaviour. That's why I wonder why, from a culture that (largely) rejects psychological insights as suspect, this one (which you and I see as errant for different reasons) comes out again and again. I agree, but I also think it’s a little deeper: the exgay thing adds a layer that is, really, *in support* of gay rights. Ex-gay doesn’t equal “ex-sinner” in this world view: the idea of Ex-gay therapy is that there is something wrong - beyond just the activity.

I say this is in support of gay rights because Gay Rights activists do not just believe that “gay” is a “choice” for a specific behaviour.

You are right that, by (o)rthodox Christian standards, the idea of “fixing” a sinner is totally off. But there is an implication in the idea of therapy that goes beyond simply fixing the behaviour. That’s why I wonder why, from a culture that (largely) rejects psychological insights as suspect, this one (which you and I see as errant for different reasons) comes out again and again.

]]> By: Chris Jones http://raphael.doxos.com/2008/02/28/the-exes/#comment-2311 Chris Jones Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:24:37 +0000 http://raphael.doxos.com/2008/02/28/the-exes/#comment-2311 I have never understood the "ex-gay" thing. If one believes, as a traditional Christian, that homosexual behavior is sinful, then logically "ex-gay" means "ex-sinner". But none of us, "gay" or otherwise, is ever an "ex-sinner" (this side of the eschaton, anyway). Redeemed, yes; "ex", no. To me the "ex-gay" thing means that if you're gay you have to go "get fixed" before you can be on the same playing-field with other Christians. That is totally heterodox. We all need to "get fixed" in exactly the same way, and you don't get fixed by going to a therapist. You get fixed by prayer, fasting, and the means of grace. I have never understood the “ex-gay” thing. If one believes, as a traditional Christian, that homosexual behavior is sinful, then logically “ex-gay” means “ex-sinner”.

But none of us, “gay” or otherwise, is ever an “ex-sinner” (this side of the eschaton, anyway). Redeemed, yes; “ex”, no.

To me the “ex-gay” thing means that if you’re gay you have to go “get fixed” before you can be on the same playing-field with other Christians. That is totally heterodox. We all need to “get fixed” in exactly the same way, and you don’t get fixed by going to a therapist. You get fixed by prayer, fasting, and the means of grace.

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