Sarx

Q. Who are the ministers of the Church?
A. The ministers of the Church are lay persons, bishops, priests, and deacons.

Q. What is the ministry of the laity?
A. The ministry of lay persons is
to represent Christ and his Church; (Like all ministers)
to bear witness to him wherever they may be; (like all ministers)
and, according to the gifts given them, to carry on Christ’s work of reconciliation in the world; (like Bishops)
and to take their place in the life, worship, and governance of the Church. (like all ministers)

Q. What is the ministry of a bishop?
A. The ministry of a bishop is
to represent Christ and his Church, (like all ministers but particularly as apostle, chief priest, and pastor of a diocese);
to guard the faith, unity, and discipline of the whole Church;
to proclaim the Word of God; (Like the laity bearing witness)
to act in Christ’s name for the reconciliation of the world and the building up of the Church; (like the laity carrying on Christ’s work)
and to ordain others to continue Christ’s ministry. (unique)

Q. What is the ministry of a priest or presbyter?
A. The ministry of a priest is to represent Christ and his Church, particularly as pastor to the people; (like all ministers)
to share with the bishop in the overseeing of the Church; (like all ministers - including laity)
to proclaim the Gospel; (like the laity bearing witness)
to administer the sacraments; (Like all ministers - this doesn’t mean “preside”, see deacons, below. This is a rephrasing of “take their place in the… worship …of the Church)
and to bless and declare pardon in the name of God. (uniquie)

Q. What is the ministry of a deacon?
A. The ministry of a deacon is to represent Christ and his Church, particularly as a servant of those in need; (Like all ministers)
and to assist bishops and priests in the proclamation of the Gospel (like all ministers) and the administration of the sacraments (like all ministers). (Nothing unique at all.)

Q. What is the duty of all Christians?
A. The duty of all Christians is to follow Christ; to come together week by week for corporate worship; and to work, pray, and give for the spread of the kingdom of God.

So, other than liturgical leadership, what is the ordained ministry? Yes, I know what clergy do. But what is the meaning of the ministry?

Here’s where I’m wrestling: we’ve spoken on these pages of how faith doesn’t exist without works. If you can’t see it, it isn’t real. Does priesthood, then? Is one a priest forever, (in the words of scripture) sacerdos in aeternam? I know this isn’t the Orthodox understanding - but it is the Roman one which several other western churches have adopted.

I’ve had a talk with a friend about what orders are and what I believe them to be… and then today I had a 2 hour phone conversation with a former member of what was my discernment committee at St Gregory of Nyssa Parish.

The questions fall in two parts:

Is there priest without community? If a priest’s function (regardless of what his or her job might be) is to bless and absolve, can s/he bless and absolve if no one is there? And, of course, this is most like the tree falling in the forest: if no one is there to be blessed, if no one is there to partake of communion, if no one is there to witness the actions, do they actually happen? And if they happen, do they matter?

On the other hand, does the community need someone “Zapped” by someone outside? See the recent posts on the history of liturgical ministry in these pages. Can the community not just assign the function of leader to whom ever happens to have the best “altar voice” or cantoral skills as doesn’t that assignation make him or her “priest” - even if only on a rotating basis?

I know both the Catholic and Protestant arguments here. Almost all Protestant groups “ordain”, as in name someone officially “pastor” (or whatever they call it in their tradition). But only a few require ordination at the hands of other folks official designated as having that power. Others gather the congregation together and lay hands on the ordinand. Only the Romans, the Orthodox, the Anglicans - and those descended from them - require a Bishop to do the ordaining. (And, recently, churches that enter into communion with these churches are expected to adopt this tradition.) But can a bishop confect an ordination when no one is watching? Can a priest confect the Eucharist with no one - not even a server - there to concelebrate?

If the answer is no… then why are they *needed*? For clearly the community is what is required in order to function. I can see where, in the Epistles, Paul talks about different gifts for different members, but he does so at a time when what we know as “the priesthood”, per se, was not reserved to one class of people within the laity - for all the various functions of the modern priesthood are split up among all the others.

If the answer is yes… then do we continue to needlessly reserve a function of the Body of Christ to a select few members? Isn’t it time we returned all the gifts (prophecy, etc) to the entirety of the laos, allowing them to be assigned as needed?

Again, the question is can a minister do sacraments when no one is around?