Doxos

Orthodoxy and Teh Gay

THIS ESSAY Was written at the request of a straight friend of mine (for his own use). But I thought it would make a good topic for a post as well….

My purpose: to sketch some ideas about pastoral care of LGTBQ folks in Orthodoxy.


My experience as a gay man in the Orthodox Church is of two different camps: First I was a member of a parish with the policy of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. I think many members of the congregation were same-sex attracted. All of the ones I spoke with reported being open to the option of a relationship in the future although everyone had stopped “playing” in the way that has become normal even among straight people. There were gay couples in this parish too: visible and present. If one had any doubts about who was a couple, Theophany house blessings would have cleared it up. But no one ever really talked about the couples, as such. On the other hand, if one *did* bring it up, one got the official teachings of the Church and one was encouraged to move in that direction. As I was when I asked.

My own “talking points” at conversion included the assumption that if the Church was right in some places then she was right in others as well: I had to allow that she might be right about sex, and so I needed figure out a way to live in a chaste, celibate way for the rest of my life. My first priest – whom I have no doubt loved me and prayed for me until he fell asleep in the Lord – he suggested I get married to a woman. He said that I’d at least have someone there for me. I couldn’t understand this idea which seems to be to inflict oneself on a woman in order to pass. Part of me wants to imagine it was because he was from Russia, and a little backward? If so, it was the only way: because he was quite attuned to things otherwise.

On the other hand, my second parish was not a “don’t ask” sort of place. The priest was very involved in everyone’s life and, quite clearly, would not have a sexually-active gay person present himself at the chalice. Confession often involved ways to avoid masturbation and the inevitable fall. I felt that Father wanted to keep an eye on me. He often dispatched me to “figure out” if other people in the parish were gay.

None of these marked a very healthy way of living. The first because it involved a sort of semi-closeted denial. The second because it involved abuse, really. And the first – where the congregation pretends the gay folks are not there and the gay folks pretend they are not there as well – it’s really quite damaging. Even if chaste, we need to bring our *entire lives* into the Eucharistic liturgy. We need to be forgiven some parts, strengthened in other parts, yes; but *all* of our lives need to be transformed by the epiclesis. What we do not bring or present on the altar can not be part of the sacrifice.

I am wrestling with this question: is there a difference for the pastor between the lesbian who has chosen to lead a celibate life and the monogamous couple that has been together for 15 years? Should the celibate person be treated with any more or less pastoral respect than the person who appears to be sexually active? Is there a way to *know* what people do in their bedroom? (Being honest here: at my advance stage of Middle Age, I’ve begun calling myself a cuddle-sexual.) On the other hand, when I was trying to be celibate, my mind was filled with tortured sexual thoughts about just about all the men in my social world – that I would confess and struggle with again and again. It’s hard to be a gay man who finds bearded men attractive – and to be Orthodox.

But the struggles of a person who is celibate are radically different from the struggles of one who is not. The attempt to suppress or sublimate all sexual urges requires a *LOT* of help. Help is not the same thing as silence. One time I posted a picture of an old friend and I on my blog and my priest became very agitated, said that teenagers read my blog and I shouldn’t have such pictures anyway. He said that when a man becomes a priest or a monk, he’s not allowed to discuss his past life and I should follow the same path. I shredded three years of journals before I realised the untruth of this advice.

The person who is struggling to live their sexuality in a different way (off instead of on) needs to be open and honest about the struggle, needs to be able to celebrate what was good and joyful about their past even as they repent of what convicts them about it.

When I was trying to be celibate, that’s when I met my partner, Brodie. And since I wasn’t sleeping around, making pick ups in bars, etc, my friendship with Brodie was never clouded by the “psychic ripples” of other sexual encounters. After 5+ years of celibacy, I began to see, clearly, where my past life was broken and where my own sins (not the sins of being in the gay community but my own, personal sins) were the cause of my pain. My struggle was to *work* on those areas, those personal sins and try to overcome them. Like any other sinner, I’m prone to fall, and I must get back up again.

There are two issues that still seem to me of primary importance: the first is the command to “love one another as I have loved you” and the second is to not cause “the weaker brethren to stumble”. “Weaker” is always in the second person: I am never the weaker brother – only you are. In this light I think there are a couple of steps toward ministering to persons who identify as same-sex attracted within an Orthodox context.

Love one another… the gay man or lesbian, the trans-gendered person in our midst is just a pedestrian sinner. Much of the cultural right and left is currently taken up with what seems to be the only remaining sin in the world. And Gays are worse than murders and satanists, at least in this light. There is evidence of this online – but it’s out there, mostly among recent converts to the faith, and usually (but certainly not always) from those conservatives in really liberal denominations.

It was easy to try and pin the blame on being gay: I got published in “Touchstone” magazine because I was willing to pin all the blame on just “being” gay. You know: gay pride parades and orgies and such. I blamed all them for leading me to sin. That played right into the hands of the warriors on the cultural right. Strangely enough, when I suddenly realised my sins were *my* fault, they no longer wanted to publish me. A gay man, depicted as a HUGE sinner, they could handle. But shown as an average one, with ego and lust and pride issues – this was more than they could accept.

Even taking the few scriptural references as read, a same-sex couple has just average sinners in it: lies, greed, ego. Pastoral care of the gay couple, or the gay single – celibate or not – must start with the realisation that these are normal people, normal sinners, and normal, everyday, seekers of salvation in God’s grace. Start there: I doubt you’ll go very wrong at all.

Making the weaker brothers stumble. This goes two ways – yes, I can imagine a few Yayas or Babushki who would be horrified to learn what that nice young woman was “really” like. And that could harm them and harm their faith journey. Look at my “native” ECUSA to see what I mean. When left and right both walk away from each other, who should take the blame if not both? But what if left and right were made to talk to each other, to sit together to pray for each other? To be honest not about “politics” and “civil rights” but rather each about his or her struggle, his or her own sins.

I think my friend imagined this might be for priests. But I am more than certain that a priest, in this area, is there only as a facilitator of the conversation – it is one from which all of us need to learn and grow. The pastoral care of persons who are same-sex attracted must be conducted by the entire community (as must all pastoral issues).

I would love for a service modelled on Forgiveness Vespers to be celebrated this way: invite a local gay group to your congregation. Make it clear this will be a dialogue and difficult for all!!! Maybe invite the local Dignity chapter (RC) or Integrity (ECUSA). Axios, the Orthodox conterpart to these groups is officialy no more – but it’s still out there. Or maybe there is a gay youth group in the area. Also invite one of the groups like Courage (RC) that tries to help gay men and lesbians live according to the church’s teachings without seeking for a “cure”. (I wish there was such an Orthodox group!) And have your congregation share their own stories – of fear, of concern for children, or of realising that a member of the family was gay, etc. And when you have all heard each others stories – really listened, wept, prayed for each other – then do the mutual prostrations that require mutual forgiveness.

That’s the way forward. To do that love together, to do that forgiveness together. Not to beat each other up, but to know that, ultimately, if God has his way, we’ll have to live with each other through eternity and, maybe, we should practice now. We have to start the conversation.

23 Responses to “Orthodoxy and Teh Gay”

Huw
February 6th, 2009 at 11:53 am

Don! Howdy! I'd no idea you were still reading around here. I don't think you're right there. That's the point, actually: the Church has failed in this regard. That's not an abstract idea but rather one that needs concrete examples. This essay was supposed to be about the pastoral issues and my experience of them: but another essay would be about my own complacency, focusing on my own in ability to call "foul" or to walk away from a given situation.

We converts tend to *really* get in to the whole monastic idea of "spiritual father" and "obedience" when we don't live in that world. That speaks not so much of an imbalance of power as a see-saw of passive-aggression that the convert creates and the priest takes advantage of in ways both parties enjoy until the game ends with both parties hurt in surprising ways. If I'd been able to call "bullshit" on some more things earlier on… I might have had a different experience.

Maybe.

Drew
February 6th, 2009 at 5:15 pm

It was helpful to this Pastor, even if right now my church is kinda "don't ask. don't tell."

And as long as I am here a few notes on the policy. My not asking is not some plan to exclude a part of a person's life from our community–I don't ask straight people who they are sleeping with, either.

Amanda
February 6th, 2009 at 9:16 pm

I can not in a million years ever imagine the Orthodox Church saying its ok if you are a transsexual, that physically transitioning will solve your gender dysphoria.

Amanda
February 6th, 2009 at 9:25 pm

Arrgh, I want to say so much but am having a hard time trying to express my thoughts. I feel as if I've been spiritually warped beyond all recognition by my experience in Orthodoxy-like a big chunk of my 20s was spent in a big cult where obedience was mandatory, and I had to feel guilty for feelings that were/are totally normal.

siren19
February 6th, 2009 at 7:25 pm

Good articulation of what’s wrong with “don’t ask, don’t tell” in a pastoral context, I think. I completely believe that we need to be able to bring all of ourselves (offer the totality of our lives, as it were) to the altar, whether or not we go on to discuss any of the details with any of the people around us (and different things are obviously adiaphora for different people or traditions). We all do crummy things to each other, and many of those things are in the context of sexual relationships (expressed or unexpressed). However, with gay people, the same-sex nature of the relationship is too often held up critically as the causal factor of bad things, and with different-sex relationships, we pass right on by that one issue to look at the personalities (or some kind of Mars and Venus issue). One benefit of being gay is that you can’t just casually attribute every relationship communication problem to gender!

To Drew: you never need to ask straight people about who’s sleeping with whom– they have mostly never cultivated any habits of secrecy on that issue in the first place due to not being the targets of discrimination. I have seen one straight woman monopolize an office lunchtime discussion with eight lesbians on where to go look for cute guys… the lesbians simply shut up, unable to offer practical help and unwilling to risk subtle or unsubtle workplace consequences later on even though the straight woman was by far the most junior one of the lot. This office, by the way, was also permeated with garden-variety sexism, but I won’t get into its many dysfunctions here. Every time a coworker (or another parishioner) asks me about my weekend, as a gay person, my answer is much more loaded (and often guarded) than it would be if I could breezily say something about a date or some in-laws.

The young fogey
February 7th, 2009 at 2:55 pm

What BJA and Courage say.

Attempted cures are cruel.

The first parish sounds like a variant of something Anglo-Catholic you and I know very well (which I mostly like – all are welcome but hold to the line – and you don’t); the second does sounds cultish and abusive (let me guess: converts, not Greeks or Russians, right?) and gives me more perspective on your recent church move. Sorry that happened to you.

As you know socially I’m don’t ask, don’t tell because it’s none of my business; in the confessional I’d say go the Courage route.

‘Transgendered’ is one of the few PC words on the subject I use because it’s accurate; according to the Catholic faith and science there are no transsexuals (DNA doesn’t lie even after operations and hormone shots) but of course all such (a real condition some are born with – little kids have it) deserve non-condescending charity and respect (equal rights including the right to be wrong). Then there’s the fascinating case of hermaphroditism (now called intersexed), probably the smallest minority of people in the world (the Pat joke from SNL for real).

The other James
February 7th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

I was a member of an Orthodox Church at one time Amanda. I have to say you’re right. I was made to feel guilty for being a heterosexual male, for being divorced and for not dealing very well with the fact that I was all of the sudden supposed to turn sexuality off like a light switch.

More and more people recount painful stories like you and Huw about cultic experiences in Eastern Orthodox churches. I wonder when someone will say that all these aren’t coincidence.

The other James
February 7th, 2009 at 4:26 pm

I know, Huw, that you’ve chastised me for holding onto bitterness about my little OCA mission, but your post makes me wonder what would have happened if a homosexual couple would have started attending. I know of one man who was same-sex attracted but who was married to a woman. No need to not ask … who would’ve thunked it, right? Another man was, I am 130% sure, a celibate gay man. Don’t ask, just assume (that he’s celibate).

Oddly enough I see your point that churches seem to put “homosex” (a word I don’t see on your blog anymore) on a higher level of sin than extramarital or premarital sex. On the other hand, when you talk about your experiences, I think, “Gee Huw, there are things that are off limits to the heterosexuals out here too (married or otherwise). I can’t go to the strip club or the adult book store down the street.

I also think your point is interesting about how sexuality is supposed to be completely off to the unmarried. I don’t know what would be acceptable, but I’ve always thought that all the way off is impossible and an unreasonable. Don’t tell my first Orthodox confessor I said that.

But yes … openness, honesty, love and humility. Wouldn’t that be nice. But now I keep hearing on the radio and on facebook how evil Barak Obama he is, “the most pro-death president in history.” It seems like a person can’t do anything without someone saying it’s a sin. Even voting can be a sin.

Huw
February 7th, 2009 at 6:12 pm

I’ve never used the term “homosex” that’s a right-wing word. If you’ve seen it in the pages, I was either quoting or someone else was wrtign. As far as I’m concerned, Sex is sex. Period. And there is healthy sexuality and unhealthy sexuality and straight people and gay people, partnered, married or celibate, are just as likely to manifest health or sickness.

I’ve not said anything about strip clubs or adult bookstores.

Fr. Ernesto
February 7th, 2009 at 9:48 pm

Amanda and the Other James – sadly you are both correct and they are not coincidence. Usually the issue to which you refer is connected to convert parishes with a high degree of “convertitis.” Huw and I have spoken about this issue, and he can confirm what I said above. Cradle Orthodox do not normally give you that same feeling that both of you report (though there is an exception to everything).

There has actually been a book published, with a foreword by Metropolitan Philip of the Antiochians, that takes on what is called Orthodox fundamentalism. So, it is a recognized problem and one that is being worked on.

The other James
February 8th, 2009 at 1:10 pm

Huw said:
I’ve not said anything about strip clubs or adult bookstores.

No you haven’t. I guess what I was saying is that if there is a group of people who only see one sin left I’m suspecting that you’re a closet member (no pun intended).

The other James
February 8th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

Sorry, I didn’t get to finish my thought. However, you do say that “there is healthy sexuality and unhealthy sexuality and straight people and gay people, partnered, married or celibate, are just as likely to manifest health or sickness,” which answers my original charge very well.

david - raleigh
February 8th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

The priest was very involved in everyone’s life and, quite clearly, would not have a sexually-active gay person present himself at the chalice.

would any orthodox priest give communion to someone he knew was having sex outside of the mystery of marriage? that could be gay, straight, married or single. and of course, i’m not asking about someone who has made this mistake but repented of it.

and do you think the gay celebate needs different pastoral care than the celbate straight person?

Huw
February 8th, 2009 at 2:43 pm

First question: I noted one who did at the beginning of the post. I’ve been made aware of others by parishioners and, in email, I’ve heard from 3 priests who do and who know others who do welcome partnered Gay/Lesbian persons at the Chalice.

So, yes.

Second question, yes & no: a celibate person needs the same help always, but: for example (and I’ve blogged about this before) I’ve heard sermons on Modesty aimed at women in the parish while, standing in front of me, was a very muscular man in short sleeves, and jeans so tight that, as we used to say, one could tell what religion he was. Men are nearly never called on “Modesty” by the same standards as women. If you (as happened to me) get the men of your parish away on a “Men’s Retreat” and think nothing of the same-sex attracted man who is suddenly stranded and without help in the midst of all this… well, you should not be surprised to hear a lot about it at confession.

If you have men in your parish who are same-sex attracted, they are going to have a different set of issues. Need the same help… but differently.

Amanda
February 8th, 2009 at 2:44 pm

Well, some of it has to do with the Orthodox style of one on one, face to face confession. Its not something you’ll see in RC parishes, where you don’t go through nearly as demanding a vetting process in order to receive communion, even in traddie parishes. Of course, it helps that Orthodox parishes tend to me much smaller than RC ones, and many people who care about such things (dare I bring up converts again) really do feel the need to have a father figure telling them what to do.

Fr. Greg Christakos
February 8th, 2009 at 10:06 pm

Excellent post. I would say that both approaches that you mention are abusive, not just the second, and both involve forced denial. The focus on sex to the exclusion of more threatening things is something we see everywhere and not just in church; most parents I have encountered are far more concerned with nudity in the movies that their kids watch than with the extreme violence of movies and video games.
Sex in the Bible is pretty free – look at Abraham. When I counsel my high school kids on sexual issues my emphasis is not so much on morality but the fact that pretty much all of them are not mature enough for an adult relationship and there are damage issues – from being pressured into sex to the devastation they will suffer when things inevitably go downhill – that are far more important than “because the Church says so.”

Arturo Vasquez
February 9th, 2009 at 11:29 am

I think that conservative Christians have passed from thinking in terms of sin to thinking in terms of pathology. In the former, we are all afflicted, but in the latter, we can use other people’s actions to distance ourselves from them; they are “different” from us. I have been thinking about this recently, and will probably elaborate on it soon.