Outlaw Preachers?
HE HIPPEST (Most Hip?) Theological war to hit the Emerging Church and several parallel groups is – of course – Teh Gay. Do a google on outlaw preachers, or take a look on twitter for the same thing. There is, of course, a facebook group, too.
The Outlaw preachers are, very generally, a group of GenX and GenY-aged pastors (there may be some millenials and one or two boomers in there as well) who preach a Gospel of God’s Grace and, essentially, minding one’s own business in Christ. I think it’s more important what their detractors say about them, however: return to the google search to see what I mean. The biggest problem most conservatives have is that the Outlaws welcome gay and lesbian folks and trans people into their churches.
The most well-known of the Outlaws is Jay Bakker, (son of Jim and Tammy Fae) whose six-part documentary, One Punk Under God, tells the story of his coming to grips with what he thinks Grace means in the Christian story. In some of the most-moving scenes in the series, Jay and his then-wife come to realise they can’t exclude gay people from their lives or their church in the name of Jesus. Then we watch as, one by one, many of Jay’s supporters pull out or disassociate themselves. There is one amazing sermon where you watch his congregation fall apart. Having been with him on grace, salvation, Jesus and more – shouting “Amen!” and so on – they suddenly fall silent as Jay draws the conclusion that they should stop beating up on their gay brothers and sisters. Some literally turn the other way in their pews. Jay is the one many folks have heard of but, I’m sure his experience is paralleled by the other Outlaw folks.
The counter arguments usually focus on gays, of course. They worry that these folks are slithering in among the youth. (Of course that’s not really the issue: it’s just that younger people support gay rights more than older folks. This scares people. And makes them feel old and out of step. But anyway…)
Increasingly, however, I think this whole outlaw thing is missing something: ironically it’s the same thing the “inlaw” side is missing.
Take a look at my (only a wee-bit tongue in cheek) summary of Hell-fire preaching:
- God will punish us with eternal hell for our sins.
- God will judge us for even the slightest imperfection.
- Jesus had to sacrifice himself to God the Father to make peace between humans and God.
- Jesus is the only means of “getting saved”.
- Salvation means only having your sins “forgiven” and then not being sent to hell after you die.
- Once saved God will count your debt “paid for” and you can get into heaven when you’re dead.
Or, take a look at the “Four Spiritual Laws“. (Here’s a flash version!) It’s not at all tongue in cheek and there are millions of people who believe it’s the truth about how God and Humans relate. As you click through you’ll realise there are more than 4 laws. It’s rather a lot: please note, when we’re sinful, not only is man unable to reach God; God is not at all trying to reach man. Jesus makes it possible through is sacrificial death for God to reach man again; for God to even want to.
Protestantism, in all its forms, it’s simply a reaction to an earlier aberration, a focus-on-one-thing to the denial of others, prevalent in the West, but present in the East as well. This bad idea was a calculation: we were in debt so deep that we could not pay it. Jesus paid it. Therefore there must be a way to pay the debt – known by Jesus but also by the Saints of participate in a mystical way in the life of Jesus. So whatever the method for the payment of this debt, the theologians called it “merit”.
Somehow, through Jesus and his agents (the priests, the saints, whatever) we had to each, individually, acquire enough merit to pay off our debts. If possible we should earn a few extra merits and pass them into the treasury of the Church – the official theological name for this point-system.
Protestants come along and say there is nothing you can do to gain these merit points. But it all functions the same way – except through the merit of Jesus only. Calvinism says that some people will be given enough points by God to get through. Others won’t. Arminianism says that those who choose to ask for them will be given enough points.
The Outlaw preachers accept this very same equation. They simply do the math differently.
We’re still broken, unable to get to God… but Jesus has done something and fixed us, paid all our debts. And so now… it’s seemingly ok to sin – including the Only Sin Left for the other folks because just as there is no way for us to earn God’s grace by our actions, so also there is no way for us to fall from God’s grace by our actions. There are no merits: nor are there demerits. It is, essentially, a sort of universalist Calvinism: everyone who shows up at Church is good to go, part of the chosen few. In fact, it’s possible that everyone is.
Against this is contrasted the most-traditional understanding present in east and west that, somehow, sin is division from God and what divides us is sin. That division is death (we were never intended to die). Jesus opens a door, provides the path to that door, and even empowers us to walk the path. But the path, itself, has little to do with orthodoxy, per se, and more to do with Orthopraxy: housing the poor, clothing the naked, feeding the hungry, serving all those around us as if each were himself, Jesus Christ, present in the flesh. We don’t do this to earn our salvation. This finding of Jesus in everyone is our salvation in that eventually, others might see Jesus in us. That is exactly the point of salvation: to become Jesus and participate in the salvation of the world.
Grace, in this most-ancient theology, is not something God does to you or something God does in spite of you or doesn’t do to you because Jesus distracted him. Grace, in this most-ancient school of Christian thought, is neither something we earn or buy, or can’t earn or can’t buy. Grace, here, is God himself, present and active in our lives. That salvation, that action of Grace, does something in us, changes us, opens new doors of mission. It’s not that we have to do something in order to be worthy of God’s grace. Rather, God’s grace makes us do certain things, and denying those things is a denial of God’s grace in our lives.
To the outlaws, it seems that the sort of Grace that pays for our ticket out of hell into heaven is too expensive. They want to opine that the ticket is free, perhaps already in each of our back pockets. You can escape hell and get into heaven. It’s still about Jesus as a fire escape.
But according to the ancient teachings: our human descriptions of hell and heaven are just mythological analogies for the same place. Our God is a Consuming Fire. We shall each spend eternity with God and for some of us it will be sheer torture to be known so intimately, to be pierced so deeply by love – not just from God, mind you, but from everyone else basking in his love. Turn aside from that all-consuming, all-encompassing fire and you shall be burned up. In each-in-community working out our salvation in fear and trembling, the purpose is to became wholly fire. In doing so we dance the perichoretic dance of God, burning up our earthly dross and replacing it with the energies of Divine Grace: God living in our life.
I don’t want to blame this on an east-west issue. It is, as I noted, present in the East as well, especially after the writings of Simeon the New Theologian and Gregory Palamas. It’s present liturgically in the Canons of Matins, which can sound like late Mediæval meditations on divine body parts. We see it in the attachment one week of Jesus life rather than seeing everything Jesus did (and does) as part of the scope of salvation. I wonder if there is a chronological, causal connection between the “Image of Pity”
And the icon called “Extreme Humility” or “The Bridegroom”
The Outlaw preachers seem to just be another manifestation of the same problem – trying to make a simple, economic calculation out of what is a divine mystery and a mystery of divinisation, of theosis. When grace becomes something that Jesus bought for us but nothing we do or participate in then we loose all consequence of sin and salvation. It matters not if that Grace is universal or particular. If we are robbed of our duty and responsibility to dance with God, then we are not saved at all.
Of course I’m not traditionally Orthodox, but in my heart that tradition of theology has taken root. In the economic version, I either risk my soul by acting on my gay desires and impulses or in the outlaw preaching version, I don’t. In the other, more traditional model, I must find a way to let Christ’s life into even my Gay world, and let him reduce, reuse and recycle, remodel, remake, reform, whatever. It is possible to work out ones salvation in fear and trembling, even being Gay.
Tags: atonement, conservatives, jesus, liberals, outlaw preachers, salvation, theology | Category: orthoparadoxy
Discussion: You came too late to this party
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Exactly!
Exactly wrong! You have no understanding of the work of the Holy Spirit in someone’s life. Yes, we will probably sin until the day we die, but once we have experienced God’s grace we are never the same sinner we were. It is NOT a free ticket taken advantaged of and unappreciated it is a gift beyond measure that is charished and appreciated even if we could never have earned it. Wow, it is amazing how much you can read into 140 characters!! Maybe you should talk to some outlaws befor you start telling us what we believe!
God’s Grace and peace be will you!
“no understanding of the work of the Holy Spirit in someone’s life.”
The opening prayer of every eastern service is,
“Come Heavenly Comforter and Spirit of Truth present in all places and filling all things, Treasury of Blessings and Giver of Life, come and abide in us and save our souls, oh Good One!”
The Holy Spirit is God living in us, praying in us, loving in us. That’s the way things are supposed to be. But we walk our own ways apart from God. God is everywhere and in everything but the people praying for we have tried to live our own individual lives instead of his life of communion.
Salvation is living that life.
I understand where you are coming from bud, but Connie does have a point. I would highly encourage that you actually look into the Outlaw Preachers more before you make such blanket statements. We are emotional creatures sometimes and we are all learning how to show love to everyone, especially the people who judge us. The Outlaws have at times struggled with “fighting” back as opposed to speaking in love, but I can assure you that we care about our ministry and the people in our communities very much. Please check out http://www.khad.com and listen to the Outlaw Preacher Pre-casts, if you want to hear more about who we are and meet a few of us. Blessings!
Pax Vobiscum
Timothy
thanks for this. As you know I’ve been mulling over the idea of “merit” for a week or so now – so your post was rather helpful. For my 2p (while still mulling it over):
1p: the flash production of the “four spiritual laws” was . . . “interesting” but the end – the “prayer” to invite Jesus in your heart – it made me think for a moment that this form of radical protestantism replaces the Eucharist with this “prayer” and with the sense/emotions caught up into it.
2p: I think you’ve nailed the crux of this – the question is what is the “mechanics” of Christ’s saving activity? That is to say – what happened during the death and resurrection that makes salvation work. Here’s where “merit” comes into play in the West: Jesus through his über-obedience dies as the sin-offering to God and through this process acquires super-abundant merit, which (according to Anselm) he can distribute to us. Hmm . . .OK . . . this, to my Eastern mind has HUGE problems (but I’m still sifting and sitting). Here’s my 2p – Athanasius describes the “mechanics” of Christ’s saving act as a victory (using the Western model it cannot possibly be a victory, rather it is a bribe) – it is a divine deception of Death, who has himself decieved and oppressed humanity. We were/are not strong enough on our own to overcome this oppression (largely because the “entire” human nature is required to do so, and only the Incarnate One is truly “fully” human) the deception of course is that the “man” Jesus enters Sheol, presents himself to Death as a perfect, full, un-blemished human – and then reveals himself to also be fully God and routes Death on his own Turf (St. Proklos of Constantinople describes this literally as a Wolf in Sheeps clothing (grin) – defeating the oppressor, Christ releases the captives and through his resurrection (i.e. proof of his victory over Death) empowers all who follow his teaching (his praxis as you put it) to be free of the fear of Death, and confident in the eternal life first promised Adam & Eve.
To be sure . . . I like this version much better (grinning sheepishly).
“replaces the Eucharist with this “prayer””
Some would say they’ve replaced the Creed and, to a great extent, they Bible, with that prayer as well.
Thanks, ALexis, for engagng the points… *sigh*
Hey, Connie and Timothy, thanks for dropping by!
If I’m wrong, show me where. I’d like this to be a conversation. The general idea is that not just Outlaws, but Evangelicals in general are missing the point of what salvation is. I’d be glad to find out I’m wrong – and that it’s only the conservatives who are doing so!
Connie: Are you saying that Outlaws believe the Eastern understanding of salvation rather than the Western one? That was my point: that the most common Evangelical, Protestant understanding is out of step with the Eastern understanding and that, possibly that Eastern understanding is the solution to the debate.
TImothy: I never said you don’t care for your people and your communities and I’m sorry if my poor writing left gaps where that Idea came out.
Edited in PS:
Connie this is a nice vid.
Untitled from Connie Waters on Vimeo.
Re-edit:
Again, if my understanding is incorrect, or if my poor writing has offered the wrong image, I’d even welcome editing suggestions. Let’s turn this into a factual article!
On my facebook page they seem to have decided that I’m writing a pro-gay article (of course I am, I’m gay!) but they seemed to have missed the point that this was supposed to be a critique of various ideas of “Salvation Economy” and the suggestion that some part of the conservative-liberal debate in the Protestant churches could be better resolved by the Eastern understanding which, generally, seems misunderstood by many in the Protestant world.
So point out the errors and the bad writing and tell me where it needs expanding and how it would be better phrased. I’ve been listening to Jay on-line since he moved to NYC, but you’re right that I’ve not heard others. Jay is decidedly Evangelical and Protestant in his preaching so, from that plus a read of your tweets and your blogs, I assumed the rest of you were as well. If I’m wrong I’ll gladly make edits, but the main point still stands, which I’ve been blogging for some weeks now: the liberal/conservative debate in the Protestant tradition (including on “Teh Gay”) might be resolved by looking eastward.
Not by converting to Eastern Orthodoxy, mind you – there are legalists and fundies there, too. But by reading the universalism of the early Saints, hearing the Cappadocian Father talk about the Holy Spirit, singing along to ancient Eastern hymns until they start to bubble up in your sleep, etc…
I’m still working on that process in this lifetime by your prayers.
Thanks.
Hi Huw,
I can’t comment on the Outlaws, as I’m not up on them, but in general I think this is a beautiful piece and well worth the read. There’s much to like about it, but I especially enjoyed the sentence, “Grace…is not something God does to you or something God does in spite of you or doesn’t do to you because Jesus distracted him.” Good one.
You are treading the border between all-you-need-is-fire-insurance and “faith without works is dead” very subtly, and I applaud you for it. I never could hold with the “saved a wretch like me” concept in Christianity. It’s too Manichaean for me, splitting the human person into a passive blob of good/evil, with evil being the dominant player we are too weak to fight. After all, God says to Cain (surely the biblical poster boy for sin), “Sin couches at the door;/Its urge is toward you,/Yet you can be its master.” (Gen. 4:7) He doesn’t say, “It’s okay, honey, you just hang around and think the right thoughts; I’ll do all the work for you.”
If you don’t mind the observation, and if I understand you correctly, this is as close an expression as I’ve seen to the Jewish attitude: we don’t obey God’s commandments because we have to earn our way into Heaven; we do them because we love God, and this is the way of life He desires us (that is, Jewish people, not necessarily others, unless they want to) to live. God promises that if we do them, we will have abundance and life; as you say, Grace/God will shine forth from us and bless those around us — and in the process, ourselves as well.
P.S. Since you asked: the present tense of “lost” is “lose”; if something is not tight it is “loose”. Cheers!
OJ: thanks for the Comment! And thank you for the compliments as well!
During my exploration of Judaism that led to my becoming Eastern Orthodox (you know my path is a mess) I discovered the interesting Jewish-EO parallel that “mitzvah” also means not only “command” but also “connection”. From Chabad, we hear a single mitzvah, is “…a connection between man and G-d, as a bridge between Creator and creation, a mitzvah is a deed of cosmic significance, a deed of infinite value unto itself…” What I read there is a, pardon the word, Sacramental understanding of (eg) wearing the tallis or keeping Kosher. And, interestingly enough, my experience in keeping Kosher was exactly like praying: standing in Safeway making food choices was an act of profound meditation, of (to return to the Eastern Orthodox language) participation in God’s action to save me. The Mitzvot and the Eastern Church’s Holy Mysteries, are those things. They don’t “save” us: they are our salvation happening.
So the first question to ask is “What is Salvation?”
If salvation means getting out of Hell scot-free (“I got no scorch marks on me!”) then none of this matters. But if salvation has anything to do with the Greek and Hebrew words used in the Biblical text – and the the use of the Hebrew root to make Yeshua’s name – then it has something to do with making us humans whole. Here. Now.
That is a process in which we have a required participation: it is a synergetic process, just like medicine or a marriage. Salvation is nothing the Doctor does to you, it’s something the Doctor needs you help to do. The Doctor may have some moments of one-sided action (surgery) but you are required to play along, to take care of your self, eat the right foods, to not pull the stitches out. Your body does some of it automatically, but some of it you have to do, make conscious choices. Your healthcare programme may be free, provided by a single payer, but in the end if you don’t *do* somethings and *not do* other things, you’re not going to get whole.
I think Huw, you’ve hit it againg – the idea of salvation as a process of becoming “whole” – indeed that is the Patristic essence of it – they would probably say – “becoming fully human” (hmmm sounds like someone else we know about ne? he he he) – it is theosis on the ground I’d say. If salvation is nothing more than a get out of jail free card – then hell, whats the point? seriously – what is the point? you get nothing out of that – there is no joy, there is no self awarness, no realisation of relationship, nor dare I say a REASON in the end for “eternal life”. Herein I think, lies the real problem with the Western concept of pre-destination.
Exactly, Alexis! I keep saying “Jesus Ain’t No Fire Escape.”
Your humility is refreshing, but I think our beliefs would make this an apples and oranges conversation. I appreciate where you are coming from. At least we can agree on the fact that God loves everyone, including members of the GLBT community. Pax!
tim
http://timothykurek.wordpress.com
Thanks, Timothy.
I don’t think I could *not* say that God loves everyone. But that’s not the point. It is exactly apples and oranges…
What is salvation?
How is it worked out in the life of the Church?
These are the first two questions.
Then… Is it possible that Gay relationships are part of the process of Salvation in the lives of some members of Christ’s body?
Peace to you as well!
To dance with God is neither duty nor responsibility but a privilege afforded by his grace.
Check out my message on Grace and Atheism.
http://www.khad.com/post/143801957/grace-and-atheism-wherein-we-ponder-gods-grace
It’s not about rules, an equation, or formula. It’s about a relationship.
Khad, thanks for stopping by!
It’s TOTALLY about relationship. VERY much so – or indeed, ONLY so. What relationship out there does not require work? Lots of work. On the part of all participants?
The Dance is the relationship. You and I, in relation to each other, in relation to God, in relation to each other, to God (etc, ad infinitum) for one can not be at all without the other. Grace is not some abstract freebie: it is God present and active in our lives. But we have to cooperate with him in synergy. No formula or equation replaces relationship.
But that doesn’t mean theres no work or no rules. What dance doesn’t have steps or rhythm or a lead whom we have to follow?
The Dance is the relationship – is Salvation happening. The Kingdom of God manifesting in this world, in preparation for the new one/or in the breaking forth of the new one.
Huw,
So I would be right in saying that you believe the church plays an integral role in the salvation process?
My dad is Catholic, and he’s shared some things with me, but the more tradional ways of doing things have never quite resonated with me, even if I believe that they are beautiful for some people.
I have a question for you and I hope you take it in the spirit I’m asking it in… I was at a protest recently with Soulforce, and we were there because the Arch Bishop in New York had blocked a document that would have made it illegal in any country to arrest or kill someone because they were gay… How do you, as a gay man in a relationship support a church that doesn’t support you?
tim
p.s. Khad, thanks for joining in. Huw, he’s one of the first “outlaws”
The easiest, most honest answer is the one hardest to live up to: Judge not lest ye be judged. One of the Saints has said, “if you cover the sins of your Brother, God will cover your sins. If you expose the sins of your brother, so God will, on the last day, expose your sins.” Having said all that…
I fail at it daily and judge people often. So I pray for my own forgiveness and theirs.
Your question seems to assume that the institutional church (in this case the Roman ecclesial community in NYC) is identical with the Church. But just as our brother the RC Archbishop of NY refuses to support me (as do others), our sister the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church (also in NYC) supports me. As do you and many others. I support a Church that does at the same time, contain people who do and also those who do not support me. Jew and Greek, Slave and Free, sinners and saints all in this party together. If I judge them whom God also loves… I’m without hope
But we’re all struggling here – your local church as much as mine as much as any other church. If that were all of the Church we’d all be in trouble. But the Church, the Kingdom of God, gathered around the Messianic Banquet fills all of time from the Patriarchs until the Apocalypse…. She is (thank God) much bigger than any human institution.
Integrating you and I the Archbishop of New York, the PResiding Bishop of ECUSA, the Pope, Khad – into relationship with God and with each other – into that Banquet, into that Kingdom is the Salvation process. It only happens in the Church – and anywhere it happens is the Church (Roman, Eastern, Anglican, Indy, Outlaw, Barstool, Pew or Drive-in, whatever name humans want to give it).
Again, I fail at it often and judge others. I trust God’s mercy. I confess, receive forgiveness, return to the community of Humans God has given me to struggle with, to “work out our salvation with fear and trembling” and then – usually without a doubt – I fall again and have to start over. Practice makes perfect (even if that perfection only comes in God’s time and life).
Thanks for the continued conversation.